Are Cataclysm heroics too hard?
Are they harder than heroics at the end of Wraith? Heck yes. We don't over-gear them.
Are they harder than heroics at the beginning of Wraith? Yes, I believe so. I don't remember group makeup being important (besides the obvious healer/tank/3 dps thing), and I don't remember CCing.
Are they harder than BC heroics? Not sure, since I never ran them at level.
But there's several other things going on here that make difficulty harder to judge.
First, we've all been revamped. This hit some classes and specs harder than others, and we didn't have much time to get used to the new status quo before Cat.
Second, Blizz has decided to change the way we heal with Cat.
Third, we have far less control about who we end up grouped with (if pugging) and far less knowledge about them.
Fourth, CC/interrupts/stuns/kiting hasn't been needed for pretty much all of Wraith (unless you PVP), so most people are anywhere from a little rusty to completely unfamiliar with them.
Honestly, if we were coming into Wraith heroics this way, I suspect we'd find them pretty difficult as well.
But I think the better question to ask is "Are Cataclysm heroics fun?" Well, not for me thus far. Running with my guild makes them more entertaining, but I still haven't enjoyed one yet. I do them because I need gear to raid, not because I want to.
The unforgiving group makeup problem is really the deal breaker for me. A suboptimal group makeup, even if everyone in the group is a great player, makes for lots of wipes and frustration. Don't have enough stuns or cc? Then certain trash pulls are nightmares, nightmares that reoccur over and over again. Call me a wimp, but I really don't enjoy that sort of thing. Most of the boss fights I've gotten to see I thought were great (except for the tornado boss since that's a little too RNG dependent), but the trash, ugh.
So for me, I think the answer is that, yeah, they are. They're too difficult for me to have fun in them, and I have to wonder why, with Blizz introducing the random dungeon finder to make it easier to run stuff, that they went to such a difficulty level. Seems counterproductive to have this tool to make finding dungeon runs easier, and then bring out a bunch of heroics that discourage pugging due to group makeup and difficulty level.
Actually I had the same impression as you at first, but already now, with some few epics, I notice how we sometimes don't cc groups we did before and brute force encounters that would've totally wiped us before. Don't get me wrong, I still wipe in heroics, especially in pugs. But I remember how I wiped and wiped on Loken, really having to make a perfect try to down him. Fast forward a couple of months and you barely had to throw a heal. Move from the nova? Hah.
ReplyDeleteI do feel like the heroics of Cata are more difficult than the heroics of Wrath (you've written Wraith btw ;)) were in the beginning, but I still think we'll start brute forcing Cata heroics before too long.
I think they're harder, but I can't evaluate fun, since I'm in a bit of a bad mood with WoW lately.
ReplyDelete@ Zinn Obviously I've been watching too much Stargate: Atlantis recently. :)
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to hear it does get easier with better gear. I did actually manage to complete my first one tonight (yes, I've never actually managed to finish one before), and that did make me feel a bit better. I still haven't managed to successfully heal one, and that, that kinda worries me.
I have noticed that two-healing makes it a ton easier, and from now on I'm going to be actively searching out two healer groups.
@Klepsacovic hope things get better soon!
I don't think Cata heroics are too hard, though they can certainly be challenging in a PUG. I think this is the intent though. Heroics are 'supposed' to be hard. H-MGT was a back breaker without the right CC, so was H-SLabs.
ReplyDeleteWrath did not prepare (heh, Illadin, you jerk) players for what they were about to encounter. People didn't believe the Beta testers when they said "amg this is hard!" (direct quote from a beta tester - true story).
I like the heroics where they are. Wipe you if you aren't paying attention (happened to a full guild run last night - oops), and ranging from pure terror to sheer fun in PUGs. And yes, I heal full PUG heroics. They keep me sharp, and help make me a better (bitter?) healer.
Interesting what you say about healing full PUG heroics keeping you sharp. Here's an example of what happened to me healing a pug last night:
ReplyDeleteMe: "Hi All". *silence*
Me: "mb please".
I sit down to drink and the tank runs round the corner and pulls a big trash pack. I waste my drink and leg it after them, even though I only have about 10% mana anyway, cos I'm nice like that, but I can't get to them in time and they wipe. They all get in a strop and leave.
That was the second pug of the night, the first one the tank DCed so everyone left. After a hard day at work I'd already wasted 2 hours of the night and I had to log out to cook, eat, wash up etc.
So for casual players with jobs, yeah, Cata really isn't fun anymore. If I'm lucky I might have enough jps to buy 1 piece of gear in time for next Christmas.
I agree with the above poster. Cata is a broken game as far as I'm concerned. Just a small point, but we 'casual' players pay the same subscription as everyone else, yet much of the endgame content is now closed off to us. We are penalised for not having as much time to play. Before anyone lets rip with the nerd rage, remind yourself that our fees added to Blizzard's profits which enabled them to write this game. You might not like it but casual players are an important part of WoW and shutting us out of the end game will see a lot of use leave.
ReplyDeleteblizz has basically said casual players get lost, leave. and many in our guild did. they have catered content so much to hard core raiders that casual players are pushed aside. again, blizz messes it up big time.
ReplyDeleteCata has turned WoW into "Leetmonger Ego-Pong". For a casual player WoW is as much fun as trying to scratch your balls with an angle-grinder.
ReplyDeleteThe leettards threw a tantrum in Wrath because casuals could get gear, nothing more than that, and it made their slice of ego-pie less tasty.
But there's plenty more games about, even PS3 Black Ops is better than WoW atm.
"Cata has turned WoW into "Leetmonger Ego-Pong". For a casual player WoW is as much fun as trying to scratch your balls with an angle-grinder"
ReplyDeleteWell that pretty much sums up the "fun" aspect as best as I have heard it put.
For me, The World of Warcraft was an outlet to blow off steam and relax from the days stress. To leave the Real world for a couple hours and be godly on one of my 14 80's. I have gotten my two "choice" toons to 85. One a healer the second a hunter. The leveling to 85 was amazing and very much a fun process. Now that I am running heroics logging in has become stress filled. Partyly due to bad groups and under performiing class. My shamnan is in all 346 gera with one exception a 359 neck piece. Healing still has not geotten any easier. I'm to the point now I will not heal anymore. It's not just me either. The game feels less like a game and more like work. I'd rather go run wind sprints and hit tackle dummies in 100 degree heat then run heroics.
ReplyDeleteI say they are not hard enough. I am a casual player with a job and I'm in a relationship. I still find no trouble finishing heroics. I don't understand the need to do a run every day, the need to have it instantly served without preparation or even how some of you people can play a MMO and ignore the social side of it.
ReplyDeleteYou are not entitled to finishing heroics, normal modes exist too. You're supposed to make allies and together with coordination beat one.
If you just wanna unwind after work without any cognitive functions they you shouldn't be trying to do it with an interactive medium.
I am a casual player with a job and a wife I like to spend time with. I say these heroics are about perfect. I am a mage (yes I cc AND I stay out of fire) and I usually run with a priest healer friend of mine. We always pug a tank and the other dps. I remember running heroics in BC and they were just as hard. Let me repeat that: HEROICS USED TO BE HARD. With that difficulty comes a sense of accomplishment when you succeed. Bad pugs do happen and every gets grouped with people who still play like its wrath. But more and more, people are converting. Very soon we will outgear these heroics too and when that time comes, I personally will be sad. I like feeling like I had to earn that blue piece of gear and that the guy aoe'ing trash mobs doing the same damage he/she did in wrath won't be able to strut around org with the same piece. Wow is not about recount...its about strategy and adapting to individual fights. Enjoy these heroics while they last.
ReplyDeleteI also work, but usually from 2-10:30pm. Most of my guild is in bed by the time I get on. Heroic pugs are pretty much impossible. Out of 30-40 runs I have only finished one. The instant kills are over the top. I'm done playing until they fix the difficulty.
ReplyDeleteit is a ton harder for the simple fact i was able to hit 80 and tank nexus in quest gear was hard but able to do with little skill now its like u have to be geard to evan try to tank caus healers suck now run out of mana to fast im not gona blame the ppl doinf rong caus ppl would do rong in voa standing in the fire but evan thin was still able to do !!
ReplyDeleteCasual playa here n would say absolutely too tough. No question. The Q times are horrible. Most groups wipe n break down with occasional playa DCing. Not worth the time. Blizz has completely alienated the elite hardcore players from the casuals like myself. Just biding my time till SWTOR comes out considerin what Blizz has done. My wow account will be good as closed. Blizz blew it bigtime this expansion.
ReplyDeleteLook the new ZG and ZA instances are too hard for the gear level that would benefit most from the loot that drops.
ReplyDeleteI have a mage ilvl350, Priest ilvl352 and tank ilvl350 - all of which have crafted epix, full 346, at least one epic trinket and some have the T11 chest, pefect candidates for the 353 upgrades available right - not finsihed one instance yet on these.
Yet with my warlock ilvl358 I find it challenging but do-able, yet for this toon it's just a crystal run and maybe go for a mount doiung the timed event.
It's not like I don't know how to play or the tactics - these dungeons just sap the will to go on, PUG? Not a chance, guild runs or trusted friends only right now for me and even most of these have lost intersted.
Nerf now ffs!!